Curse

My Sweet Revenga · Jan 17, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Yeah I can't seem to get the same aqua blue on my ranger's armour anymore. You'd think it was possible since obviously the colour still exists on my current armour. Maybe I'm just not using the right dye combinations or it could be that the 4 dye limitation is the cause. Before the dye update, I had a 3 dye mix in my inventory (bah!) but I tried using it with the dye preview window. The colour was off from what it should have been before the update. But I found that I could add more dyes to the mix and the preview window would update (even though it wouldn't let me apply it). So I can only assume the 4 dye limit is the reason we can't get our nice old colours back =[

GranDeWun · Jan 17, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

The new system needs a generic 'darkener' and a generic 'lightener'. (You could use a white or black, but its expensive.)

Otherwise, many old colors are impossible to duplicate.

jcapulet · Jan 17, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Another thing to consider when trying to replicate a color, is that on different monitors (and maybe video cards?), colors may not appear the same. A long time ago, hubby and I created a guild. I designed the cape...to me it was a med/dark purple.

Then he asked me why I made a pinkish guild cape

Checked on his screen and sure enough...it was a pink.

floppinghog · Jan 17, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Theres a few problems with the dye system right now (forget the preview window thats something else) but when you do open it and place you 4 dyes, well, you can't dye something red-red but it shows you a difference in the window!

Another is white sucks. plain and simple, it doesn't act as the "lighten up other dye" with it, it bleeds other colors away and stays white. Its too strong

Same for black, its sucks, other than dying something with just 1 black (which is great compared to before) but with anything else, it falls short in effects.

Much like Gaile is plainly wrong, the blood necro dye my necro and many others still keep from the old system isn't possible to obtain anymore. I know, I tried. I got close but the closest was actually an orange red, and it wasn't even red dominate enough and with that it still wasn't dark enough to register as "blood".

Much like the blood dye, same goes for those other bright colors we could have before. You just can't get it anymore. Gaile says this stuff about different materials and base colors, yeah O.k. Well we are telling you it sucks and isn't up to par with what we had, so bring the other dyes special mixing back and keep white/black/brown and give them more use in mixing.
We already knew what base colors played in part with dying, and we knew already that "metallic" armors and "cloth" armors dye differently. Example: Prophecies Monk cloth armors, and Prophecies Warrior knight armor.

I would say the underlining issue is, the old color combos we could get was more realistic than what we get now. I mean I use red dye on my 15k luxon war armor and its blood red but its ugly so I try adding black, it becomes a pinkish red? WTF?

ElinoraNeSangre · Jan 17, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

The blood red dye for necro does depend on the armor; I was able to get it on my 1.5k Necrotic from Drok's (but that stuff seems to dye pretty bright anyhow). However, not on 15k Kurzick for instance (and it was possible at some point as there's pictures on guildwiki of it).

I also had a bright teal on my 15k Kurzick for a time, and I can't seem to get the same color. The new teal, though, is a darker more subtle teal and it's actually very nice.

I'm not really complaining because I'd rather have the dye preview anyway (so that I don't have to buy a ton of dyes for combos that don't end up working!), but just pointing out a couple of things I've noticed.

Carinae · Jan 17, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen Christie

Also, dye remover was sometimes one of the crucial dyes in mixing dyes aswell, like that blood red color that we can't make anymore...

No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by czymann

Even with red dye in the mix instead of the dye remover did not make the blood red color for necro armors. The dye remover was needed to make the blood red color. No other dye can replace it in the mix. All of this is true before the dye update and still is true. Blood Red for necro armors cannot be duplicated(Unless Black Dye is thrown in the mix). Even if Black Dye is in the mix I highly doubt you can get the same bright Blood color.

And No.

Dye Remover was NOT essential to the Blood Red color. It was just R + G + B + P. That's it. Carinae has four sets of Blood Red armor, dyed with that combo.

I do agree that the color can no longer be made. At least, no one has figured out how to reproduce it.

For bonus points, tell me how to dye a Bone Charm a deep dark red.

Carinae · Jan 17, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

What we really need, is some kind of "Color Analyzer" where we can feed in a "target" color and have the game report the dye combos that give the closest results.

Maybe that process would cost 50g at the Dye Trader.

**cosyfiep** · Jan 17, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

the probem is not the new dyes....its what they did to the armor....
for example
ele armor had a base color of something like blue + silver + blue +white.....now its grey......and that is considered when you apply dye to it.

I had luxon armor which I dyed purple + green....came out a neat aqua. now its horrible.....and nothing close to the color it was before even when I apply it to the same type of armor (say I bought the top to match the skirt) now its impossible to match any armor from before the nerf to armor after the nerf since the base colors of the armor changed (besides black and silver).......

I have an example using my latest mesmer.....she was made during the factions time (may or june) as my mule.....the image has the orignal color combo (uhm purple alone) on the right.....while the image on the left is after the nerf (I decided to make my dervish my mule and started playing my mesmer......) she had starter armor, but I bought new higher al to continue playing her.....I bought the same armor type, but now the base is grey-----notice the BIG difference from even the gloves---undyed on the right, dyed green on the left........
now am unable to get that dye from the right....glad I kept the screenie
( I apologize for the image size.....its paint).

My suggestion for anet would be to add yet another dye....this one would be called 'base' and would be applied to the armor to return it to the base color for your proffesions armor (like green for mesmer, blue for eles....)....and then we could apply colors on top of that....instead of the horrible 'grey'. ugh.

KingKryton · Jan 18, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aegeroth

Thats a very nice combo...

Male Vabbian - Tower Shield - Elonian Gladius = East Roman Empire Warrior!

Western Roman would need a legionare look.

finally found a tower shield

More Outrage · Jan 18, 2007, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Either way it makes me wish I`d stocked up on dye remover before the update, could of sold them for a nice profit now. But I`ve got to admit the new dye preview system is much better and much less costly.

Feminist Terrorist · Jan 18, 2007, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I believe if you notice a difference in dyes, it may be based on one of two things: The dying may have been done using the old system, which while less optimal in many ways did produce some shades that players feel they are unable to replicate today. The second and more like reason is the "base" on which the dye has been applied is different, and someone is comparing apples and oranges... or metal and cloth.

Dyes were improved, and a preview screen added, a few months ago, and the colours obtained now are more vibrant and the combinations have more differences in them, making dying even more of a science and an art nowadays. This allows greater personality and variety in the shades that you can use. (In the old days, it was really hard to tell the difference in some vials because the differences were just too hard to even see.) You can still mix up to four dyes to get custom colours, and the preview screen accurately shows you how it will look on that particular material.

I'm sorry, but there's no "feel" at play here. Some combos simply cannot be replicated. At all. For many other combos the color is now off. Admittedly only slightly in some cases, but it's still off, and for color matching purposes, it might as well be something completely opposite.

The dye preview window is a fantastic addition, but tweaking the dye colors was a mistake, in my opinion. The new dyes tend to result in muted, rather muddy tints. Personally I'm thankful that my main characters have the dyes I wanted, because there is no way I will redye their armor with the current system. Unfortunately that also means I can't buy them new pieces and expect them to match the old ones.

greyf0x_f0x · Jan 18, 2007, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Firstly, I'd just like to say that the new preview system, and the concept of drag and drop dye mixing is great. For the most part, it has been cheaper and easier to get the colours I wanted on my characters. I don't think this new system has less possibilities than before (though those possibilities are different), I just think that because we can now try out a massive range of dye combos at no cost, people are noticing the limitations more.

I think some of the problem people are having with white and black dye, is related to the fact that they are not really colours as such. What would be really great, is a slider system, whereby you can choose the level of black or white you are mixing with your colour. Now you might argue that you can do that already, by mixing 3 black + 1 red, but saddly that's not the case.

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 18, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Ahh. Thanks for the replies. Also, thank you Gaile.

Yea, we both have the exact same armor, so the base material that the dye is being applied to is not different in any respect. Apparently, as was said, the new dye combinations are, indeed, much more vibrant. The closest color I can get to my armor today is still brighter and, well, more vibrant (not to be repetative).

This kinda' stinks because I'm getting tired of my "steel teal"ish color, but I love getting compliments on my "awesome dye combo", which can't be reproduced now! *gasp* Then again, the brighter version isn't too much different, so I'll side with the updates. That preview window is a real money saver!

Feathermoore Rep · Jan 18, 2007, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by floppinghog

Another is white sucks. plain and simple, it doesn't act as the "lighten up other dye" with it, it bleeds other colors away and stays white. Its too strong

Same for black, its sucks, other than dying something with just 1 black (which is great compared to before) but with anything else, it falls short in effects.

I second that. On my male ele vabbian i was very VERY disappointed when i found that if i use a black or white dye it completely takes over the color. Even if i add 3 red/green/blue the most it does is tint the color a tiny bit. The only color that can overwrite white/black oddly is purple. I dont know how but purple + white/black = color close to blue (like it should be).

Overall, Blue seems to be the only color that i can create just about any shade that i want. Red and Green: I can get redish-purples and light greens and thats about it. Pink is just downright impossible on some armors (I mean pink - not redish-purple). And yellow...its like white but inconsitent. Sometimes it acts like yellow and sometimes it doesn't.

And what most baffles me is how on my armor: Red + Red + White = Something ugly thats a cross between brown and white with ever so SLIGHT tint of red.

I understand that dye now is supposed to reflect the materials its used on, but no material I am aware of is resistant to certain colors. Especially now since everything has a grey base, the type of material should not effect the specific color of a given dye. Even if its metal all that should do is make the armor more shiny, because if you really want to get down to it, you can't dye metals very easily/if at all. More likely to paint them then anything.

As well I do believe that you can create new colors with system, but we also lost some of the old colors. And personally alot of the new colors are armor dependant. A combo used on one armor maybe completely different hue and saturation and lightness on another. As well, the few armors i tested, seemed to have a bias towards a ceratain color. My male ele vabbian for instance has an affinity for blue for some reason. Name a color/shade of blue and i can probably find a way to make it on my ele. >.<

Its not a major issue, but the dye system really does need to be re-evaluated. Don't get me wrong, the dye preview is great. Its the physical coloration of items during the dye process that needs to be examined.

EDIT: Sorry this turned to a rant. I was/am quite miffed about how my Male Ele Vabbian Armor dyes.

Desbreko · Jan 18, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I'm unabled to reproduce the light pink color I have on my elementalist's ascended pyromancer armor with the new dye system, though I can get it close. I just need to be able to mix in a fifth dye to get it light enough without washing out the color.

Either that or white dye needs to be changed. Silver now adds a blue tint to things, and white makes colors really washed out, so there's nothing left to lighten colors while keeping the color balance the same. Which makes light shades of tertiary colors (like magenta/pink) almost impossible on some armors.

atkafighter · Jan 19, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

What if they added a color picker, and you could choose your color, and get the matching dye combination?
I was thinking something like this...

It could work similar to the Guild Cape window, but it would be for your armor. I think it would be pretty nifty. ^.^ It could be an NPC like the festival hats guy, but for dye combinations. Maybe you click on a color you want, and he/she says "Oh I could make this if you brought me X vials of (color)."
Although this would take all the fun out of discovering your own colors it would be pretty handy, and save on dyes so you don't have to buy ones you may/may not use, or carry a ton of dyes on hand all the time.

More Outrage · Jan 19, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by atkafighter

....Although this would take all the fun out of discovering your own color..........

That`s it in a nutshell! It was kind of nice trying to find a different colour to anybody else.

Now I just seem to use black dyes more and I`m not sure why as I used to steer clear of them due to lack of and cost. Silver used to be the mixers choice along with dye remover but now silver is a waste of inventory space and the dye traders price mirrors this opinion.

ValaOfTheFens · Jan 19, 2007, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Armour is made of different things. From fabric to metal to leather to even wood! Each texture, each substance out of which the armour is made accepts and absorbs the dye differently. Even between fabrics, I believe you may see a difference, from linen to damask to cloth (although I would want to test that to state it with certainty). But it's for sure that between properties as different as metal and leather, you will see a major difference.

You know...it would have been helpful to know all this from the beginning. Why isn't this stated in the Manuscripts? I've been wondering why my boots look almost Pink when I dyed them Red. Truthfully, I wish each armor was made the way it used to be: in the base color of your chosen profession. I'm a casual gamer and can't spend alot of time grinding in order to buy dye for all my armor. I could leave my armor the horrid Gray but it would only serve to be a source of ridicule from other players. GW has gotten significantly less colorful since the system has changed. I go to Istan or Shing Jea and see seas of Gray everywhere. What a downer.

floppinghog · Jan 19, 2007, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Basically Anet mistakenly changed too much without enough testing, released and turned a blind eye. All we needed was a preview window for dye combo's we DIDN'T actually need a white dye, we didn't need a brown dye, and we didn't really need black to be changed into a lone tar pit that lightens other colors... (makes sense?)

Come on now, "kiss and makeup" We want it fixed, Gaile said numerous times, "all dye results should be possible with the new system", When she admit's herself she hasn't tested very much.. that just really rubs me the wrong way. And I get really pissy with that type of shit if anyone can't tell already. FIX IT PLS

Drevik Crimson Hero · Jan 19, 2007, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Many of my old receipes do not come out right anymore also. I believe that it is also that many contained dye remover in the mix. As for base armors, I long had that built into my formulas as did many of us dye-addicts have. The 15k gladitor drove me nuts that I could never get a better red than tomato red on it because of its metalic gold base.

However, I am so pleased with the new dye screen that I do not mind rewriting my dye forumla books.